Complains + Suggestions collection

I'm pretty sure everyone in YTC has a few complains, but no one wanted to say it out loud. So I kinda thought over some problems I've heard and discussed about from private chats with some YTC members. I believe these problems are what bothers auditioners most.

1. "Auditioners should NOT be judges"
I thought this was an obvious rule, but.. Look in the Audition's Winners Board and you'll know what I'm talking about.
Auditioners don't care how nice that judge is, or how much of a good friend she/he is to you.
They don't want him/her to be their judge, if he/she is also auditioning. It's unfair, especially when those judges become winners too.

2. "I want feedback for my audition"
The truth is, most people who ask for feedback doesn't really need feedbacks.
They just really wanted to make sure that the judges actually did listen to their auditions carefully.
It might be that the person is self-centered and doesn't believe that he/she failed the audition, but there's no smoke without fire. (see more detials below)

3. "xxx sounded so much better than yyy, but why did yyy got in but xxx didn't?"
4. "I think I met the requirements pretty well but....;n;"
^Here's the reason why they question if the judges actually listen to all auditions.
To get the right info, I've sent some PMs to mods who have judged before and Noki gave me some detailed answers.
So first let's talk about how the judging works. Here's an example I'm taking from the recent Campanella audition:

YTChorus wrote:
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
SLOTS
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
1) IrukaLucia
2) MayReanna
3) Nucl3arW3ss3l

And the slots goes on.
So most people are guessing that Rin copies the audition link and post in on the first post.
And there comes the problem: people feel insecure that Rin might copy the audition link wrong.
I mean, if you miss a letter when you copy, the website might say "file does not exist", and the judges might think so too. So in the end their audition won't even get to the judges' ears.
Even if Rin guarantees that she'll try the links when she edit the first post, people can still come up with some "what if's".
Also, some people might wonder: "when there's like, a billion auditions, do the judges BS through auditions like how I BS through homework?" ...even if you tell them you give each judge 20 auditions only, because who knows if the judges rush everything in the last night.

5. "Rin never replies to my PMs D:"
I'm hoping it's not just me who got ignored....orz
I've sent her 3 or 4 PMs in total, both to Rin's account and YTChorus's account, and never got any replies.
I didn't really mind since I got used to it after the second time, and other mods can answer my PMs.
I can totally understand that she has a life in the 3D world too. No one lives on the internet.
But what will a picky newcomer think when she/he gets ignored? (Sorry I know most newcomers aren't like this but you get the point here) "Oh what? Are you trying to be badass and ignoring my question?" Whatever they think won't be great.

6. "Is it deadline already? but in my country it's still xxx..."
I always wonder.. why don't you just include what time you're using? Or do you wait untill the whole world have past the deadline?
I remember some upsetting things happened in one of the auditions before because of "in my country it's not deadline yet".

Uhmm, I can only think of these for now..^
Might add more when other problems come to mind.

=======================================================================

Now time for my personal suggestions. Unlike the above, I didn't discuss these with anyone. Just purely what I think, and doesn't represent other member's opinions.

1. Actually, I think it'd be better if judges can check on auditions in a regular basis, instead of deciding everything when the audition ends.
For example: let Noki check every Monday, Fruu on Wednesday, Chiru on Friday and so on. Just leave a post in the audition topic to show where the next judge will start at.
There won't be that much work if each of you only judge a few auditions once a week.
These "regular" judges won't decide the final results. They kind of filter out the ones who really didn't try hard. (I know it sounds mean but.. you can tell when someone definitely won't make it)
After filtering, they QUOTE the auditions that survived, and Ctrl + A, Ctrl + C, and Ctrl + V, saving them onto a notepad file or something, solving problem #3 and #4.
According to the quality of auditions our forum receives.. by the end, about half, or even more than half will be filtered out. (I'm sorry, but it's true.)
And there, judges, exchange your notepad files around (people feel fair that way), copy the whole notepad to the "post a new topic" and preview. Have fun judging.
This method seems a bit confusing, but it's the best I can think of that solves almost all problems the judging part has.
Of course the judges don't need to check auditions every other day, since there aren't much auditions in the first few weeks. Once per week is good enough (if there are 4 judges then they each only need to judge once per month untill the audition ends). Maybe increase to twice per week in the last 2 weeks.

2. To satisfy people who aren't happy about the judging results, give them a chance.
For example, after you've post the results, set up 3 or 2 days as "open days to have your auditions re-judged".
The failed auditioners may PM a judge and say they want you to listen to their audition again. Note that you are still listening to the audition they've submit before, which means they can't give you a new audition.
I usually listen to all auditions if I decide to audition for something. And almost everytime I see a few good auditions failing, and a few bad ones getting in.
I think if someone really cares about the audition and really worked hard on it, they should get a second chance.
I mean, come on, auditioners. We all know when we sounded good and when we raped other's ears. Don't spam the judges with your not-so-good auditions just because you really wanted to get in and have a line of solo in the chorus to show off.

3. Instead of having people to think you're trying to be badass and not replying to PMs, why not write "Sorry I can't reply to PMs" somewhere in the forum?
Not everyone feel like posting in the forum for questions.
The new Board thingy added on the home page is really cute, so you can add another little board displaying something like "The following Mods are free to answer your questions:". Make a whole list of Mods' names and make the ones available red, unavailable gray. I'm sure people will understand.

4. (This is not a suggestion to YTC, but to people in YTC who just can't get over failing an audition, and have a whole ton of complains hiding in their stomach.)
Don't get obsessed over YTC's judgement. Even it's called "YTC", it does not represent the whole Youtube community. Being in a YTC chorus won't make you famous, and you shouldn't sing just for fame.
Your relationship with YTC should be like this:
YTC wants to make a chorus --> YTC needs singers --> You sing because you like to sing --> You offer your voice to YTC --> YTC decides to take it or not
So it's just like your offer is refused.
Not a big deal, really.
Yes, it is a bit upsetting when you got refused, but you shouldn't be expecting that much in the beginning either.

And that's the end of my complain + suggestion collection. OuO *elbow hurts from typing*
D-Don't shoot me please. It takes all my guts to write something like this..

I have to thank you for your suggestions and explaining, trying to make this a bit understandable but REALLY; there's nothing unfair about the way we judge!

If one of the slots doesn't work we will search in the posts to recieve the correct link; that's not a problem.

NONE of the judges rushes through auditions since it's unfair.

giving feedback on the auditions is in my opinion a bad idea, since some people might not take it as positive help.

"when there's like, a billion auditions, do the judges BS through auditions like how I BS through homework?" <- this is NOT true obviously, if you have any questions about the judging you should just ask right? there's staff to answer your questions and if Rin doesn't answer there are other people! it's better than keeping things in "private chats with some YTC members "

questions are here to be answered.

now for everyone who wonders how the judging works;

1. the slots get divided in even parts depending on the amount of judges and the amount of auditions

2. the judges get a number to start and to stop with judging from the person who divided it into groups.

3. the judges make a list with good and doubt cases, persons on the edge will be counted in as well and will be discussed about.
(we listen if you sing the right lyrics, have good mic quality and singing skill)

Also, the bad auditions who "Didn't spend time on their auditions" are out.

4. often the doubt cases are discussed with individually in a chat with judge members.

5. after the good list and some doubt cases picked by the judges are on a list they will all be sended to rin, who will do a final check up and maybe pick some errors out.

6. the winners are picked and will be posted on youtube.

none of the judges let's a person pass just because they are friends or w/e.
People who think that we "BS" through auditions underestimate the time and work there's put into making this happen.

I think i am done, there's nothing wrong in my eyes with the way we judged untill now, making a feedback possibility is just like the previous 'almost in' list. aka loads of drama and bullcrap that someone didn't even get in the almost list.

if you disagree with me or anything, we don't just have a forum for nothing.

That's all.

3. Instead of having people to think you're trying to be badass and not replying to PMs, why not write "Sorry I can't reply to PMs" somewhere in the forum?
Not everyone feel like posting in the forum for questions.
The new Board thingy added on the home page is really cute, so you can add another little board displaying something like "The following Mods are free to answer your questions:". Make a whole list of Mods' names and make the ones available red, unavailable gray. I'm sure people will understand.


This needed to be added; thanks for the idea, i will try to talk about this with the staff :3

Thank you for expressing you opinion but I do believe you have some misunderstandings about the judging process. ^_^

Just a more detailed look into it because I type a lot too~ owo

1. "Auditioners should NOT be judges"
Although judges also do happen to audition doesn't mean that they judge themselves. We believe in fair treatment of all auditions. What happens is that if one of the judges happens to be an auditionee, we find someone else to judge it, not the person himself/herself, so please don't think we're being unfair. It's not like we go "OMG I WANNA BE IN THIS!!" and directly get into the dub. We want to audition because we want to be treated like normal members of YTChorus. We try to be as fair as possible so that everyone is happy.

2. "I want feedback for my audition"
3. "xxx sounded so much better than yyy, but why did yyy got in but xxx didn't?"
4. "I think I met the requirements pretty well but....;n;"
In these 3 points you posted, I do believe you pointed two main things:
1. People think judges don't listen to the whole thing and just BS judging
2. Audition links that could've possibly been copied wrong

Okay, first, we try our best to listen to every single one of the auditions. We do not BS everything. It hurts that people think we don't take this seriously while we, on the other hand, are working our butts off to organize YTChorus. It's not easy, you know? We have lives too as you mentioned.
Also, when someone DOES come forward asking for a critique, we usually give them some. I have people coming up to me on Skype asking for these kind of things and I do not usually ignore them. Noki does the same. We give constructive criticism in the nicest way possible. We think twice before we type something out. Do you know how hard that is? How much thought we have to give?

The second point. That has not even happened yet. That is not an actual valid complaint.

5. "Rin never replies to my PMs D:"
Ignoring PMs? Badass? Rin has already mentioned several times, both under the forum banner, her Youtube account, her YTChorus account and even Facebook/Twitter, when she's busy and when she can't do things on time.
Rin's been having a hard time. Her grades fell because she has these expectations from everyone just because she started the whole YTChorus. There's a reason the mods exist. We wanted to help her out, decrease her burdens and give her time to relax but we don't usually get PMs. Noki has told me that she gets PMs announcing stuff rather than PMs asking for actual help. Actually, we're pretty much online on Skype, MSN and our Youtube accounts every day so I don't see a reason why people can't ask for help if Rin's not replying. I personally put all my usernames for those on my profile here for the purpose of people contacting me when they need to.

If they don't get the help they need, then it's pretty much their loss. It's not like we will know who needs help immediately. We need to get contacted first. It's a matter of the person trying his best to get an answer.

6. "Is it deadline already? but in my country it's still xxx..."
Noki actually closes the auditions a day after the deadline and she lives in UTC/GMT -4 timezone, so it's already the next day for pretty much everyone else as well.

As for your suggestions.

The process of judging you indicated is far more complex. Don't you think it would take even more time to judge if we used that? It would be hard coordinating all of that because it's already hard enough getting someone who's free to judge because of our timezone differences. Some might be in the same timezone but that doesn't guarantee that they don't have something more important to do relating to schoolwork, family, etc. Some of us are also in the middle of our own projects as well. After all, we're just normal dubbers like you.

Moreover, Rin does relisten to the auditions after the judges make their decision. Sometimes, Noki does it too. After they relisten to the auditions, if they find something wrong with the judging, it will be discussed through chat. Then we finalize the winners.

Any of the mods can be PMed or contacted at any time. If one of them doesn't answer as quickly as you hoped, try asking another one. One of us is bound to answer you. However, we will make an announcement for everyone to see that mods are available for questions and so on just to make everything clear ne~ :3

I do agree with you on your point of obsessing over YTC's opinions.
It's pretty much what I see with some of the auditionees. It's nice that they get excited and all but you shouldn't think that only our opinions really matter. There are a ton of other people out there. If you don't get in, just keep on trying your best. Everyone's just trying their best to improve their singing deshou? If you don't get in once, that doesn't mean you won't get in future dubs. :3

If you have any further queries, do not hesitate to ask or express them.

I'm glad that the judging process is made clear, it helps answer up some questions.

That thing about judges listening carefully to auds or not
I think Momoka mentioned that people fear the judges don't listen to auditions carefully or whatnot is more a point of presentation as opposed to actually doing it. I am pretty sure that the judges listen to all auditions carefully, but sometimes the judges have longer replies to one aud and a shorter reply to another. It may be because the judge knows this person better so it'd be a more personal comment among friends and has bearing on the results, but it does give the impression of favoritism. I'd suggest replying to all audition saying 'it was received, thank you very much and please look forward to the results'. That way, the person auditioning may feel more at ease that it's been received, and will feel better that the YTC staff have personally confirmed it and do not feel like they are being put in favor over people.

"I want feedback for my audition"
I think in this case, the mods are trying to be kind and offer feedback for people, but what if everyone asked for feedback? YTC has around 70+ auds, and to get them all a concise piece of feedback is difficult and very time consuming. Going by the critiques I used to write for people, I take around 20 minutes writing them, so imagine that by seventy. That's a lot.

That said, I think it would be unfair if some people got them and some didn't when they all asked for it. I think YTC should make it very clear if they were giving feedback or not. If they say they will give feedback, I say that is is a responsibility they put upon themselves and they should get it done unless something really big in RL gets in the way. If they decide not to give feedback, I wouldn't mind; I mean, we do have a critique thread on this site for people to use.

If judges let singers in but have feedback to make so their chorus files sounds better, I'd rather those things went on in private. (Like if you chose an actor who had terrific acting and fit the role perfectly, but he kept faking an American accent that sounded horrible, after he was chosen you'd tell him on the set to use his normal accent, not at the selection. If that makes sense. XD) I think that the Animators audition was kind of an example of that happening, where the chosen people had feedback posted right on the selection page. I'd personally like it if everything after choosing the singers was kept to PMs (and we can get a bigger surprise when it's done and sounds better, whoo! 8D)

Deadlines
I'd also second the deadline thing that was brought up... Maybe something like 'Dec 14th 2010 a 5PM EST', with the timezone and all. Then people really shouldn't have reason to feel shunned for whatever reason and use any excuse for not handing it before the deadline. I think Noki closing it a day after confuses things personally because then I'd have no idea which day and which timezone it'd be going by. :O

Aaand just to end this long long post, I'd just like to say maybe change the phrasing of the 'winners' board? Calling the chosen singers 'Winners' kind of imply that the rest are 'losers', which I don't think enforces the right attitude. >: (that may be me being nitpicky though XD)

kran117 wrote:

As for your suggestions.

The process of judging you indicated is far more complex. Don't you think it would take even more time to judge if we used that?

I agree with this, and it's also better to do it in one time since you'll get a general 'average' standard in the auditions?
It makes it easier to decide which auditions can be accepted and which cannot.
If we used the Judging system QrMOMOKA suggested, which is like small bits of auditions for different people...I can imagine things going wrong after a long period of time.
This would also mean that, if there were to be a lot of auditions at a certain point, one judge will have to do loads of work.
If we have a finished list and devide it evenly, it will all be shared and honest ;D.

mong wrote:Deadlines
I'd also second the deadline thing that was brought up... Maybe something like 'Dec 14th 2010 a 5PM EST', with the timezone and all. Then people really shouldn't have reason to feel shunned for whatever reason and use any excuse for not handing it before the deadline. I think Noki closing it a day after confuses things personally because then I'd have no idea which day and which timezone it'd be going by. :O

Aaand just to end this long long post, I'd just like to say maybe change the phrasing of the 'winners' board? Calling the chosen singers 'Winners' kind of imply that the rest are 'losers', which I don't think enforces the right attitude. >: (that may be me being nitpicky though XD)

Thanks for the suggestion, you're right about this.

If there is a certain timepoint which indicates that you can or can't audition for something anymore, there won't be any dissapointments or such from people who thought that they were still on time.
Also, it's not that nitpicky of you to think that. I can understand some people might feel that way when they don't appear on the winners board.
If that's a really big problem it would be better to say they 'passed'auditions instead of 'winning' them.
After all this isn't supposed to turn into a competition.

Hello! Thank you for the suggestions!

1. I do not think it is unfair for judges to audition. And, as Fruu has said, when judges audition, they do not judge themselves. For example, in Toeto's audition, I purposely gave my audition for Fruu to judge because it would be unfair if I accept myself in the auditions, while I judged Kran's audition. Is that unfair?

2. Now the feedback system. There are people who WILL take into account the constructive criticism. I do remember receiving a PM on YT of a person who wanted to get feedback and Rin and I did reply to that person. Whether that person considered or not the reply is his/her problem.

3-4. As to announcing winners, Judges do have deadlines, but those deadlines are usually stuff like "Within the week, and if you can't just turn it in asap". We do NOT do anything last minute.
Also, I have not received any audition with a wrong URL until now. And if I fail to listen to the audition, was because the audition file was deleted from Mediafire. So make sure to have a secure host for your audition.

5. Rin has been very busy with school, and she does not have time to reply to every PM she receives. But she does work very hard to reply as soon as she has the time to. I assume everyone wants to get replies as soon as possible right? Well, that is what exactly the mods are for. I just want to clarify that mods do not bite people. Instead, we will be very happy to help those people who PM. Most of us have written somewhere in our profiles our Skypes/Msn/YouTube Accounts. If we don't have the "Feel free to PM me for more suggestions and stuff" in big, red, underlinedand bold letters, it does not mean that we cannot reply to your PMs. I know that most mods check their YT everyday, so feel free to PM us on YT [Since it is rather hard to catch the "New PM" icon in the forum].


6. I am usually the one who is closing the auditions and I do usually close them one day after the actual Deadline.

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As to your suggestions:

The system you proposed offers less opportunities to those people who want to redo their auditions.

As to the re-auditioning idea. I do consider that some people can do much better than their actually did on the auditions. But as you can see, most of the time audition deadlines have been extended. Why didn't they took the chance to redo their auditions? If they did not consider on redoing, then we can assume that they were confident enough of their auditions. Also, would you like to receive 80 new auditions again if you were a judge? Do you know how much time it takes for judges to listen to each audition? Once I stayed until 4 am. listening to auditions.

We will consider the idea of announcing which mods are available for questions. Though, keep in mind that because all the mods have different timezones, we are available almost all day for replies. We do not bite or kick people's asses. That should be taken into account.

-----------

I am glad someone have spoken up about the situations around YTC. The mods have been pretty much puzzled for the last few months because we had no idea what exactly the problems where and thus, we had no way to solve them. Even though Momoka has spoken up, mods do expect the members who have complains themselves to speak, whether is it with us privately, or through this thread. As I have mentioned several times in my post, mods DO NOT bite and we do not exist to make people suffer. So feel free to say it out loud, instead of "having private chats with other members".

And do NOT expect us to be magicians and solve the problems without knowing what they are.

Thank you Momoka, I really appreciated your post!

I personally don't find a problem with the judging system save one thing-- that certain people judge things differently, so it'd be reassuring if I knew all judges were going by a similar criteria.

For example, take Singer 1 and Singer 2. Singer 1 sounds very good, but uses a crappy mic. Singer 2 is a decent singer, good but not as good as singer 1-- but this singer has a better mic. Both singers seem to have put in good effort.

Assuming it does not become a doubt case, Judge A looks thinks singing>mic quality and puts singer 1 through. But if these two singers were given to judge B, who thinks mic quality>singing, singer 2 would go through. While we know what the judges are looking for, in a situation like this it really depends on what priority the judges place certain things and I wouldn't like it if I were aware that had a different judge had me, I could have gone through or something like that.

Fruutella wrote:
If there is a certain timepoint which indicates that you can or can't audition for something anymore, there won't be any dissapointments or such from people who thought that they were still on time.
Also, it's not that nitpicky of you to think that. I can understand some people might feel that way when they don't appear on the winners board.
If that's a really big problem it would be better to say they 'passed'auditions instead of 'winning' them.
After all this isn't supposed to turn into a competition.

Yes, that was what I was thinking. If someone says 'But it was 4PM in MYYYY timezone!' they really have no excuse, as you have written explicitly which timezone you were going by.

I think it's just the competition factor of the word 'winners' that bothers me. People who don't 'win', 'lose' and it gets people down. It isn't much, but it may have an effect. XD

mong wrote:
For example, take Singer 1 and Singer 2. Singer 1 sounds very good, but uses a crappy mic. Singer 2 is a decent singer, good but not as good as singer 1-- but this singer has a better mic. Both singers seem to have put in good effort.

People with bad quality microphones are usually not accepted, but if the singer is that good, every judge will discuss it with the others.
If singer 1 is allowed to pass he/she will get on the list and the rest will be decided by the endjudge (noki/rin) if this wasn't discussed with them yet.

With singer 2, that person will probably get on the list as long as he/she knows the lyrics, timing and notes of the song.
This, ofcourse will count for singer 1 as well. But considering Singer 1's mic quality number 2 will probably pass easier than 1. :3

@Fruutella: Thanks for clearing that up :3 Do the judges normally have a limit of people who go through or does it not matter as long as they all sound good?

*is on a question rampage-- sorry about this OTL*

I have a question

What exactly do you guys consider a decent quality mic? one that's sufficient to not even consider it to be an issue

@Fruutella: Thanks for clearing that up :3 Do the judges normally have a limit of people who go through or does it not matter as long as they all sound good?

Hmmm we will put all the good sounding ones in the lists and depending on the amount of people wanted, the end judge will pick people out or maybe ask for more people.

Kumbancha wrote:I have a question

What exactly do you guys consider a decent quality mic? one that's sufficient to not even consider it to be an issue

I think a decent quality mic means your mic doesn't have too much background/static noise (and pop sounds), and it's clear sounding. ( EQ can do a lot as well, so average microphones can do)

I would agree with Fruutella. We're not super picky. We just ask that there is no buzzing or any other loud background noise. If it can be covered up by music, then it's fine.

Clarity is also important.

How about.. we pick out the "steps of how YTC judge", "what happens when one of the auditioner is a judge", "deadline", and other easily misunderstood topics, and make them into a seperate post?
For future auditions, whoever's posting the audition can just link to that post so people can understand.


Me personally doesn't have much against how the "winners" are judged either, though sometimes, I do feel that the judges should listen to a few auditions again, because they sound better than someone who actually got in. But that's just what I think.


Oh for the quality of mic, some people have an okay mic, but they couldn't remove background noises properly using noise removers, so their voice sound.. weird. Don't know how to describe it but it sounds like a really bad qualitied audio that's been compressed.

QrMOMOKA wrote:Me personally doesn't have much against how the "winners" are judged either, though sometimes, I do feel that the judges should listen to a few auditions again, because they sound better than someone who actually got in. But that's just what I think.

Everyone has different opinions. We have our reasons for not choosing some people. :3
Someone may be good but there are times when their voices might not be suited for certain songs.

YTChorus is supposed to be something fun. We didn't intend for it to become something really super serious.
You joined these forums and this whole project trusting us and our opinion as dubbers.

Aw S@#!, the bitchy mod is here. Brace yourselves. I'm not about to make anything sound particularly nice if I don't think I should.

1. "Auditioners should NOT be judges"
Honestly? I want to agree. But at the same time, we're all singers as well, and we're running YTC because we enjoy singing. So if we all stop auditioning for the sake of this so called "fairness", then what? What are we running YTC for? So we can do all the boring/tiring/painful work for everyone else? In Nico, there are people who only mix, and that's the difference. All the people in YTC are "synthesis" people that do everything - I personally sing, mix, and make videos, though singing is still ultimately my main "thing". If I stop singing, everything else is just going to feel like a chore to me, and then YTC will die, because let's just say, all the mods will end up feeling like that after a while.

"Well then the mods who want to audition for something can just not judge for that song!". What if they get in? Then everyone will call it favouritism. So if everyone's going to scream LIEK OMG FAVOURITISM WTF D8< then we may as well go all out and still judge songs that we're auditioning for. Just not ourselves. Just my long-winded opinion as someone who hates being overworked so other people can enjoy themselves

2. "I want feedback for my audition"
Feedback takes the world's longest time to write, especially an unbiased one. And there are times I'm expected to give feedback for something I can only think of bad things for. If I have to be honest myself, I listen to enough of an audition to figure out what it is. This is MY honesty - I'm not going to BS saying "of COURSE I listen to everything!" because I don't. I'll listen to parts of the verse, and if it's absolutely butt horrible I pass on it, because it's not worth putting my ears through more of that. I have a life too, and I'm not going to go deaf because someone expected me to listen to tonedeaf, mispronounced/missung lyrics with bad timing in whole. IF they pass the "verse test", I skip to the chorus and listen to the whole of it. If I don't think the person pulled it off well enough, into the "maybe" pile they go. If they do well, usually I go to the ending (where most of the times there's note changes, or big things).

If something's absolutely amazing from the start then I listen to it whole, however. If something's 90% in tune and the voice suits the song then I usually don't feel the need to skip any parts. Though even if I listen to the whole of someone, there are things like "But she just doesn't have enough energy" or "I really don't think he'll blend with the rest of the people we're picking" and they too do get rejected if they fall under me.

Call me a B@!$, but no real judge just sits there and listens to crap. Honest.

3. "xxx sounded so much better than yyy, but why did yyy got in but xxx didn't?"
4. "I think I met the requirements pretty well but....;n;"
I answered most of that in my previous long (mean) reply, but to expand.

There are times when someone is good, but just does NOT sound good on a song. Or they won't blend with the other people. There are some poeple who are GOOD, like, REAL GOOD, but are soloists by nature and are not "capable of blending in a chorus". Selection for chorus is more about melding and becoming one, while being able to shine on your own as well, and someone who can only do one or the other is just not right. You can sing really pretty but be very boring and therefore won't stand out in a solo, IMO. Or you could be a slightly pitchy person, but know how to blend and YET still somehow make yourself stand out as an individual.

I'm going to be honest again, and say that I never want to see SPiCa repeated again. Kappu is an amazing singer, but he got no lines because he couldn't blend with the rest (as the only guy selected), and it's a waste to see him being covered up like that when really, he's a great singer. Rather than have picked him, we probably should have picked another girl for a better balance. I'm all for having both guys and girls, but as we can see with SPiCa, that was just...really bad ):.

6. "Is it deadline already? but in my country it's still xxx..."
Great idea. Honestly, I never know when the deadline is either, I just wait for either Noki or Rin to go "btw can you judge nao prs" "o okai".




Aaaand for QrMomoka's suggestions (was lazy so I put it off for a bit).

1. No. Anything that makes judging more tiring than it already is goes straight out of the window for me. I don't care if it's more "fair". Like I pointed out earlier, it's never going to be fair. Life's unfair, too bad. Also there are a lot of things that are going to cause problems with that system. Like what if the first "batch" is all crap, but the second one is all amazing people? How are you then going to do your "filtering" that way? There's also the fact that judges have lives and would much rather just get the job all at once than have it a lingering (mostly painful) thing to do.

2. No. Because IMO it's not going to change. The way we judge is we split the list, and then take our "yes's and maybe's" into a group chat, where we then discuss it in real time. So what we've chosen is already our best choice. Second chances are an ideal than really just doesn't exist in life. If you fail your exam and get it re-evaluated, chances are it's just to assert that LOL U HAZ FAILED FOR REALZ.

3. There is a significant problem with that being that only some mods are in charge of the "admin" stuff. Which I believe are Rin, Noki and Kran. I personally do not know anything about that stuff, and if someone were to ask me, it'd just be greeted with a "uh...duhhhhhh urrrr...ask noki?". It's a good idea though, if it only applies to those who are able to answer the questions.

4. (・∀・)b

I love you, Ciel. ;w;

To add to 1., and I know I'm going down for this:

For all the work we do for YTC, I think we deserve to be in choruses, whether anyone thinks it's fair or not. I don't think members realise how much effort goes into producing choruses. If you want a fair chorus, then be my guest and just participate in those that are hosted by members. But how many of those don't have the leader of the project automatically in the choruses either, even when it's an audition one? So why's there no issue there?





That's all. (I don't audition for most of them anyway so you can't really say I'm cheating my way through anything. Just FYI, I got into Just Be Friends -piano- when I first joined YTC, aka long before I was a moderator, and when I auditioned for Don't Say Lazy, I wasn't a mod yet as well. Though I ended up quitting on it orz)

I think with all the comments the moderators have made this shows we have a stable judging process.
People should think a bit more about why someone may or may not get in a certain chorus, instead of bitching about it to other people, since it creates problems for the staff (mainly judges you can say).
I agree with everything that Ciel said, and if anyone here has problems with that and you readed this thread than speak up? Mods have been wondering who those persons were for what? probably months already?

All I can say it that this feels pretty respectless for me already, while I am only judging things, I don't want to know how it feels for mixers and animators who only get sh** comments from 'anonymous' people.

And IF we start giving feedback next to auditions or w/e, it will be a HUGE load of work, however i would try my best but keep in mind: We will be honest and if you suck, you suck. Then what are we supposed to feedback to you? I don't know but I can say that my feedback will probably not be nice.

If this happens you'll get this BS, people saying 'Oh, so I suck >:' thinking they don't, saying we are unfair and causing drama for us again.
Then it will be the same like the ALMOST LIST : 'I didn't even get in the almost list.' Well let me tell you, if you didn't, your audition was bad.
Don't think you did tons of work on it, everyone else did too and the staff needs to do much more work than your single audition.

So I think this idea is stupid to add to a standard judging process, especially since seeing what kind of things are going on now, making mods type paragraphs with each other trying to explain nicely and asking for the anons to step up and speak? People will quit just because the others are acting like b****es. And this will be for everyone's loss.

I do agree with some of the comments made by the moderators (although personally I'd phrase them in a milder manner XD). The judging system seems to be as fair as the judges can make it, and while there may be a few anomalies, for the most part if you didn't get in, it's probably because you were not good enough on the song, mic quality is bad, and so on. If you can accept that it is mostly your fault you did not get in, then you can move on and work on bettering yourself. (even if it isn't your fault, bettering oneself is a good thing anyways. 8'D)

That said, and I don't mean to be rude, but I think one of the reasons people are not coming up to mods with suggestions and complaints and doing it amongst themselves is the fear that they will get backlash from the mods-- this thread hasn't had much of the aforementioned backlash, but if I were a newbie who was not acquainted with the mods and stumbled across most of the second page in this thread, I would be pretty terrified to make a comment, regardless of whether it was a complaint or a valid suggestion. (tbh, I am scared shitless typing this out ;A;)

Also, I second Momoka's request for a general info/FAQ page just to save mods time if they have to go through explaining the judging criteria/process again. I think it would be helpful. :D

(...I'm still standing by my 'All or Nothing' with regards to feedback. Preferably 'Nothing'... ><)
...runsawayhomgsoscarednow;A;

EDITED FOR DOUBLE POST
( I can't delete this?)

mong wrote:That said, and I don't mean to be rude, but I think one of the reasons people are not coming up to mods with suggestions and complaints and doing it amongst themselves is the fear that they will get backlash from the mods-- this thread hasn't had much of the aforementioned backlash, but if I were a newbie who was not acquainted with the mods and stumbled across most of the second page in this thread, I would be pretty terrified to make a comment, regardless of whether it was a complaint or a valid suggestion. (tbh, I am scared shitless typing this out ;A;)

Also, I second Momoka's request for a general info/FAQ page just to save mods time if they have to go through explaining the judging criteria/process again. I think it would be helpful. :D

(...I'm still standing by my 'All or Nothing' with regards to feedback. Preferably 'Nothing'... ><)
...runsawayhomgsoscarednow;A;

Haha xD, don't worry about mods, we don't bite.

Though, when we get a little strict i do not think this should be blamed on us mods you know..everyone tries to keep this rolling and organized and it would just be easier to get questions instead of one of these topics momoka made to pop up. <- I think it's a good idea she did this though, it's about time someone stood up for it.

But all this explaining and being so direct by us could be way nicer and personal if we don't get the feeling like we could kill someone (xDD) because there are complaints...but from who? We've been trying to find out for months now, trying to give support, so anything that gives complaints about us is just a way for mods to explain and solve or to better ourselves. It's stressfull as hell when you don't know where they're coming from though.. >:

"Also, I second Momoka's request for a general info/FAQ page just to save mods time if they have to go through explaining the judging criteria/process again. I think it would be helpful. :D"

I was just bringing this up in the Mod thread, so it will be discussed.

And yeah.....ofcourse no one should be scared, so no need to run Mong! : D

Mong is right. No matter how many times you say "mods won't bite", people are still afraid to talk to mods, especially about complains. (Mods are kinda like school principals. Even if the principal said "come to me if you need help", you still wouldn't go talk to him. XD)
It's hard to complain about something, because even though your words might sound pretty nice and friendly to you, others might think you're totally firing at them.
The only reason why I can write a whole page of complain is because those aren't my complains. Well, I did thought #1 was unfair, but now it's cleared up so I'm fine with it. (that's why a "Judging FAQ" page is needed) I know many of my friends thought it was unfair too, since no one told us that the judges don't judge their own auditions.
But still I was honest when I say it takes all my guts to write this.

The steps Fruu said, and the other things Noki explained are good enough to clear up any misunderstandings an auditioner might have.
Just take those bits out, make them into another seperate post, link to that post in future auditions, and you're good.

QrMOMOKA wrote:The steps Fruu said, and the other things Noki explained are good enough to clear up any misunderstandings an auditioner might have.
Just take those bits out, make them into another seperate post, link to that post in future auditions, and you're good.

Well it's good that this cleared up any misunderstandings, the Rules/Regulations board will most likely be updated since it's in discussion now.
So they will be linked as rules in there.
Also i don't think it's bad if a staffmember gets in without auditioning, since we are organizers and stuffs (and we have nice singers in our staff =X), but it's also fun to join and be excited about the outcome and if you passed or not. :3
+ It seems more fair for the nromal YTC members

I don't see anything wrong with having staff member in without auditioning, as long as they sound good. I mean, YTC is not a charity.
But if they do audition, people like it when it seems fair.
So a FAQ on the judging topic can stop people from guessing "OH IT'S FAVOURATISM BLAHBLAH" :3 Looking forward to see that FAQ!