Forum related issue.

[Guest]

Okay, rather than ranting like crazy on Skype, I felt like it was better for me to speak up here on the actual forums since my complaining isn't going to change anything (if it does at all) until I'm heard so I might as well give it a shot. I'm sorry if I sound rude but it's kind of difficult to please everyone when making a complaint.

1. Okay, first of all, I suggest renaming the moderator group to "Judges" or "Helpers" or something because from what I've seen since I've joined the forums months ago is not moderating. I never understood why is it that every time YTChorus gets new judges or helpers, they're a moderator since I doubt they have any experience on the forums whatsoever seeing their amazing lack of posts. I'm actually happy we have new mods and all but it was the line Jin said that made me think about it the most.

They aren't the most active members on the forums, but they can now service you like any other moderator!

This makes absolutely no sense to me at all. I understand that they help behind the scenes or what not but why put them in the moderator group, especially since no moderators from what I've seen have ever been active on the forums. The only moderating I've seen besides kran's occasional moving of topics to the right place has been by Jin. Someone countered this idea on Skype and said they don't post much because they don't want to be treated on the same level as members which may cause members to forget their class but the only problem is I never see any moderators actually online other than to post a new audition thread or pop out of nowhere when someone has a complaint here.

I also suggest getting real moderators or getting rid of the moderator job in total because it's sad to see Jin doing all the forum moderating (closing topics, moving topic) etc. when no one else is around. The forum isn't the chaotic enough to cause any moderation to be done anyway so having an excessive amount of moderators seems useless to me.

My final complaint is that the group colors (the teal color for Administrators and new purple for moderators) clash with the skin and everything that's orange. I find the sudden change in group colors rather random.

And like I said, I'm sorry if I sounded rude. I love YTChorus and can only hope it continues and improves. Thank you for reading this.

[kuri-n]

Hello there~ ^^

I must agree I'm not really that active in the forums and that I just do help behind the scenes so I'm more of a "helper" rather than a moderator. So I agree with your idea of changing the name "moderators" -> "helpers". We will be discussing about this don't worry.

Someone countered this idea on Skype and said they don't post much because they don't want to be treated on the same level as members which may cause members to forget their class...

Um. Honestly, this is a big misunderstanding. The reason why we don't post much is that we're busy working our butts off for the YTChorus Festival, mixing choruses and other things related to YTC. Also, we have our real life to worry about. Such as school and w/e. We just don't have time to post much. Also, "class"? Just because we're mods [or helpers] doesn't mean we look down on them, we're basically "helping" them to create a better YTC.

As for the group colours, I don't think there's anything wrong with them even though it bashes the orange theme. It easily identifies the group. You wouldn't want a group to be in another shade of "orange". XD But honestly, I've never seen a forums that have group colours that doesn't clash with the theme colours so... owo

I appreciate you for telling us, so thank you! ^^

[Fruutella]

Okay, rather than ranting like crazy on Skype, I felt like it was better for me to speak up here on the actual forums since my complaining isn't going to change anything (if it does at all) until I'm heard so I might as well give it a shot. I'm sorry if I sound rude but it's kind of difficult to please everyone when making a complaint.

1. Okay, first of all, I suggest renaming the moderator group to "Judges" or "Helpers" or something because from what I've seen since I've joined the forums months ago is not moderating. I never understood why is it that every time YTChorus gets new judges or helpers, they're a moderator since I doubt they have any experience on the forums whatsoever seeing their amazing lack of posts. I'm actually happy we have new mods and all but it was the line Jin said that made me think about it the most.

They aren't the most active members on the forums, but they can now service you like any other moderator!

I also posted on that thread that I would be more active on the forums, and I have been.
When the complaints/suggestion collection thread came out i stayed untill 8 AM, I log in a few times a day to check if there are any new posts in the most important sections as well.
So saying that moderators are never online doesn't make sense to me.
I just don't chat a lot, but I do help and support Rin and everyone else (what you don't get to see on forums), check up if there's no new complain post like this one.
You may think that we just sit around doing nothing but then you're wrong.
( I do have to agree on Jin doing a lot of work on the forum itself. The rest of us do a lot of judging and help with animating, mixing.) <- but still, the whole forum has been revamped by Ciel and Noki mainly, I helped rewriting the Rules/Regulations section. So saying that we don't do enough seems kind of strange to me. >:

[Guest]

Hello thank you for writing this up.
I do agree with you that I am not an active post-er as I should be in the forum. But you know what, Google indicates that I visit this website 14 times a day.

Also, I believe most of your assumptions are quite vague.

If you can't see any mod/admin online while you are online does NOT mean that we don't do anything at all. Some of us are in Hidden mode.

As to your point of mods being active members, ask yourself this question: Are there any rules/requirements as to mods HAVE to be active post-ers to be mods? Rather than than mods with 10000 posts, I believe mods should be members who have good leadership and are able to be organized and responsible for their work. Quantity does not mean quality.
I was chosen to be mod in HQ Foros [A quite famous Anime Forum in South America] after being 1 month there, and I had almost no posts. However, I showed that I was trustworthy enough to manage a forum as well as my interest and support of the forum.
While chatting with Ciel on how to improve aspects of the forum, I learned that Ciel has managed a lot of other forums before as well, and she knows how most of the stuff work.
The other mods that are managing the forum have been my friends for a long time [more than a year or so] and I can assure you that they are the most trustworthy people you could ever find on the internet. So I don't understand why you assume things that you are not clear with.

Another thing: Jin is not the only person who is managing the forum. I personally stayed til 4 am writing up new rules for YTChorus and you can ask Kran, Ciel or Anu if you don't believe me. Ciel has also worked very hard onto modifying and checking over the. You need to understand that managing a forum is not just feeling what you want to do. The Administrator's Panel is not as simple as you think it is. Also, the other mods are not sitting there and just reading random topics on the Spam section. They help A LOT on judging, mixing and animating, and those are NOT easy jobs. So I think you have a few misunderstanding about that.

So you are saying that Jin is doing all the work. So do you think we should leave our jobs as mods and give even more work to Jin? Do you think it is fair? Most of the YTChorus Staff members are here to help each other, and not give more work to a single person.

Someone countered this idea on Skype and said they don't post much because they don't want to be treated on the same level as members which may cause members to forget their class but the only problem is I never see any moderators actually online other than to post a new audition thread or pop out of nowhere when someone has a complaint here.

It is quite disturbing to find people actually believing that mods do not post because we want to feel superior.LOLOL xDDDD. I just want to clarify that mods have their 3D lifes as well, and they are not sitting in front of the computer 25[yes 25]/7/12/365. They need to go to school and do their homework as well. I am sure many of the members on YTChorus understand this.

I will talk with the other mods and admins as to how we can divide the Usergroups, because yes, I do agree it is a bit messy. We are trying to organize things as fast as possible. We are not super-machines that can process complicated equations in 0.1 millisecond. If we were so, we would be the World's Mathematics Olympiads Champions and we would have thought of a destructive robot to rule over the world.

Thank you again and hope that wasn't offensive xD.
[Edit: Whoops I didnt realize how much I wrote ;A; sorry orz...]

[Guest]

Seperated my responses with quotes for organization... somewhat.

Um, okay. I seriously don't see moving the forums around and changing the skin and the forums little pretty and whatnot as moderating. I'm not at all spectacle that any of you don't help Rin and help YTChorus in the background and it's nice the Rules have been updated or condensed from what I've seen in the other thread.

I'm only spectacle about the fact you're all called moderators and yet there isn't any actual forum moderating at all. Perhaps the forum hasn't expanded enough for the need of actual forum moderators who actually look at all the sections to ensure these rules are actually being met. And with the new moderators (Um, the mods who have posted in this thread), it just seemed odd to me that forums needed even more moderators than there was before.

I'm not saying I don't appreciate your work. I'm just confused about the way the forums ranks/classes and whatnot were put together because I believe the forums is just as important to YTC as the channel and mixing and whatnot is.

Edit, since Noki popped out of nowhere:

Okay, I admit I was vague especially since I don't care at all how many posts someone has to make them a moderator and how early or late they joined. But if a moderator isn't active or so Jin says as any other member, and continue not being "active", I don't see why they should be labeled as a "Forum Moderator". I don't need the rules to tell me how active a moderator needs to be since I too have also have had forum expeience for years and have been off many ranks on such but not of that information matters, now does it? It doesn't matter how much you may have had, it's what I'm seeing now.

It's great we have updated rules. But that's just one thing that could have been done any time. And if you actually read my post a little, I mentioned how mixing, judging and whatnot is different from forum moderation and appreciate all the stuff you all do. I don't think at all those are easy jobs. If those jobs time consuming, then we might as well have moderators aren't doing those jobs to moderate the forums. And yes, Jin isn't the only one. At least, I truly hope so.

But I'm all I'm talking about is the forums. Just the forums. Nothing more.
As I was saying in posts, because suggestions exists as well, We could rename the moderater group to something that's more clear and appropriate or we could have forum moderators who aren't helping with the important stuff that gives the forums a purpose.

And the ending part... it kind of threw me off. I don't think anyone thinks any of you aren't busy.
After reading these posts, I'm starting to be convinced the moderators are doing my work the administrators are actually doing. =/

So I think I lost my own point somewhere in this.

If it's possible, do any of think you can give me a list of what all the groups on the forum actually do? =] It might clear things up for me because I've seemed to completely messed up the roles.

[JinSeng]

Finally a question I can finally answer.

Although I do most of the work you people do see, there is sooooooooo much work the other moderators and staff do. I brought up the idea of the forums to build a closer community ontop of the one Rin started. With the moderators, it gives them the ability to do what normal members can't do as well as being a staff of YT Chorus. As the staff increases in size, we won't need as many people working of things like rules and basic forum stuff, but people who can help others with questions when concerning the forums. Then would be a better time to create a usergroup for Staff in general, but for now, moderators are sufficient.

Also another note that can apply for many things. All people on this forum have lives outside of YT Chorus. You must consider this when asking any question. They are all human beings, not some superhuman robots.

My intention about running these forums is so Rin and the other people who deal with the choruses don't have to worry about managing the forums (Although THANK YOU CIEL AND NOKI. SO MUCH HELP).

We'll keep the moderators as moderators for now, but as YT Chorus's staff grows, then we can expand into basic staff.

[Fruutella]

It's great we have updated rules. But that's just one thing that could have been done any time. And if you actually read my post a little, I mentioned how mixing, judging and whatnot is different from forum moderation and appreciate all the stuff you all do. I don't think at all those are easy jobs. If those jobs time consuming, then we might as well have moderators aren't doing those jobs to moderate the forums. And yes, Jin isn't the only one. At least, I truly hope so.

The rules and everything have been updated since we had anonymous complaints, and finally one person (MOMOKA) stood up for everyone else (who didn't even attempt to ask or suggest any change) and tried to clear things up, if these anonymous people would have told us what bothered them, this revamping and updating would've been done long ago.

Also, I just joined the mod group and I have been watching the forum for day and night.
they didn't choose me because I like to chit-chat and so go on, they did it because I help with YTC (not just the forum, but that aside.)

Didn't a lot of things change here? We've been busy with updating the forum and now we are discussing about adding more things, and we are also busy with the YTC Festival, which will need a lot of event threads and whatnot.

This is all related to the forums, we've been talking, suggesting and preparing a lot for you guys.

But I'm all I'm talking about is the forums. Just the forums. Nothing more.
As I was saying in posts, because suggestions exists as well, We could rename the moderater group to something that's more clear and appropriate or we could have forum moderators who aren't helping with the important stuff that gives the forums a purpose.

I think this is a good idea, and it should be considered, but it's kind of unnecessary since all of us are currently active?
As I said before, we discussed about a lot of things, even about who should do what.
So please, have some patience, we can't just make perfect everything in just one day.

I also completely agree with what Jin said above me.
(he does a lot of work and he's doing it very well!*thumbs up*)

[Guest]

Okay, I'll make a brief post. I don't expect any of you to be perfect. I understand you work hard and there's plenty of things going on the background that I would love to hear more public announcements about if there are any possible anyway. I was just concerned about the forums because it is important too after all... for the community.

I've been foruming since I was 10 and I've been to many forums. There have been horrible forums out there where it's just spam, the staff gave up on the community, or the forum just died together.

I really want YTChorus to continue improving and I guess I just got worried after a while. I'm sorry if I seemed rude. I really appreciate everything. I just only hope for improvement and the only concern I had was how the groups worked and I was confused.

I really do hope YTC continues to expand and continue improving.

[ChiruKashu]

I am probably the least-active mod here, (posting wise)
But i am on the forums alot, but I just rarely post.
This is my first forum, so i am still kind of new to all of it.

But as a moderator, or helper or whatever you want it to be, I am willing to help the members and give advice, mainly, just be open to PM's and just helping people. I dont really like to talk about random things with people i dont or hardly even know.. ;w; sorry!

But that isn't what makes a mod. And we do help Jin, or atleast, we did!
We rewrote the rules and judging etc. So.. dont say we dont do anything because we don't post!

I just want to help people in this way, and being a mod doesnt mean you are favorited or "above" everyone else, the people who think that are just ignorant, though, Yes, we are very good friends and talk alot with eachother, but this doesn't mean that we think of ourselves as a "clique" and that we are better than the members, after all, where would YTC be without you guys!?

That's all i wanted to say owo ty~

[Ciel]

I dunno about you but I've always been lurking around here moving topics and what not whenever I can, as a moderator, and even as an admin.

I think the difference is that the moderators that are selected do NOT belong to any of the cliques present at YTC, and therefore it just seems like "oh wtf why were they picked".

But can you honestly say, for example, that I've been doing a bad job, and it's wrong that I don't try to interact with members? What if it's the other way around and members don't want to interact with me because they're scared of pissing me off? Is that then my fault that I don't post much and "integrate"?

Ever since I've been given Admin position I've been working to put together YTC in a more ergonomic fashion, being that the previous set-up has always bugged me. And I hope that as an avid forum goer you can logistically see the ergonomics 8D! (I've been at web-design since 9, and forum-ing since about 12, and being 20 now......XD). I'm not much good at moderating but I have confidence that I will be able to bring forth improvements by working with Jin : D?

On the same note though, ANU does nothing. *runs away from ANU* no just kidding, he helped us out a lot with the renovations!

Though really, just because you post lots isn't a sure-fire sign you're going to make a good moderator, because you're going to have to learn how to set a good example to the rest of the members. Being an active spammer everyone loves isn't necessarily going to mean you're going to magically stop spamming as much and be more authoritative once you're a moderator. Same things applies with me being a jerk - I was a jerk when I was a member, I'm STILL a jerk now, 'cept more people are scared of me 8D;;;;. I can't change my personality - I can TRY to be nicer but...I'm just a jerk 8D

Apart from the Moderator group, most of the other groups (Mixers, Instrumentalists, Singers, Animators) are just groups in names, really, that serve no purpose.

The other purpose of the moderator group is so we can all collectively access a staff lounge without having to create an entirely seperate class for people with no powers that can access the staff lounge. This may be temporary, or it may be permanent, who knows. I might be an admin now but it's not my executive decision :'D.

It IS true that most of the moderators don't do any moderating, but personally, being someone that comes in once in a while, there really isn't MUCH moderating you can do for a ridiculously huge forum other than try to keep it in check.

Definitely appreciate the feedback though!

Also the colour change is purely for my own selfish reasons of not wanting to be red. None of the other mods and admins have had an issue with it, and as stated earlier, there are no colours that won't clash with a theme. What I CAN do is make them darker and less pastelly, but I refuse to be red, and swapping the Admin/Moderator colours just so I could be blue again was just gong to confuse people, so I just changed them entirely.

[krannda]

Every moderator who replied to this pretty much said everything already (esp Ciel. Kudos to you for always typing the best answers.)

As was mentioned earlier by Fruu, just because you don't see them posting around doesn't mean they ain't doing anything. There are times when we just check forum posts to see updates on what people are doing and we don't reply to them because we have other things to do. However, ever since the complaint by MOMOKA, I've seen them being even more active in the forums. I was generally active but I've been even more active now. I probably check the forums more than 20 times a day refreshing in the middle of my mixing and recording. Posts really don't count as anything. Just as long as we know what your needs are, I think it's pretty much okay, isn't it? :3

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