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Whadda Heck Is Harmonies/Hamori/Whatever that thing is called? XD

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Post by AKATOMO Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:25 am

Ok i also posted this as a question on another thread (im sorry if this is counted as spam >.<)
But i was wondering what that effect was, well im not even sure if i mentioned it right but its the thing where the singing sounds like theres two voices, like halyosy's ver of melt. And if it is an effect (im guessing it is like somesort of code aft reading ChiruKashu's topic - Harmonies for kimi no shiranai monogatari and it was pretty much alien talk for me @o@) how to use/do it, on what program? Or is it a singing technique? Like vibrato? Cus i hav no idea how he sings like that orz...
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Post by Cherysh Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:46 am

Harmony is not an "effect" per se.

Harmony is also a group of notes, except these notes are played behind, beneath, and around the melody. Harmony supports the melody and gives the music ...

@ http://www.sfskids.org/templates/musicLabF.asp?pageid=16



^ You should be able to get the gist of what harmonies are from the above? (Though not too good a job of explaining, maybe someone could elaborate ><?)

Or if you're lazy, just bend the pitch of your vocals (not a good idea, unless you know how to manipulate it properly to get it sounding good) and layer it on top of the main vocals. Or use the "chorus" effect that is some mixing programs.
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Post by さおり Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:31 am

Cherysh's explanation is actually pretty good already :3

A 'harmony' is like a sister tune that accompanies the 'melody' in music. A 'melody' is the song's main tune. The 'melody' is what you predominantly hear in a track, and is also the one you're most likely to remember and sing because it's the main component of a song.

If you were to compare a song to a cake, the melody would be the cake itself, while the harmony would be the icing. A cake would still be a cake without the icing, but the icing helps to make it sweeter; in the same way a song would still be a song with the melody, but the harmony helps add body and life to the song.

Composers tend to add notes that simultaneously play with the 'melody' in order to "texturize" the piece and that's the harmony. (Just imagine if all songs had just one vocal without music. That would make everything really flat > u <)

Take this song for example. This here is Misha's Purger from the game Ar Tonelico. The music in Ar Tonelico uses a lot of harmonies in their songs, sometimes reaching up to 4 voices accompanying the melody at times.



The first 5 seconds alone of this video ("Rrha ki ra exec") has 4 voices singing, each with their own distinct notes, but it's not obvious unless you listen to it carefully over and over again.

It's quite amazing how everything seamlessly blends together, isn't it?


You could make your own harmonies, if you'd like, but this isn't a "set" process since each song's melody is distinct, making each song's harmony different from the next.
Try this: Record yourself singing, and duplicate that track. Make the next track either 3 notes higher or 3 notes lower than the original (Or add both, if you'd like, hahaha.)

That's actually already making a harmony, but it doesn't sound that nice since the harmonies are at the same volume as the melody, thus overpowering your song's main tune. I hope this was understandable?
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Post by AKATOMO Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:30 pm

Thank you guys (T^T) all i knew about harmony is that it just 'existed' lol im such a noob when it comes to mixing... (and singing but yeah...) orz XD
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Post by krannda Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:35 am

A lot of people cannot distinguish harmonies, so it's alright. xD

Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. ( =w=)b*
I know someone who was told she couldn't be a singer when she was 4 because she couldn't hear herself properly. Now, she works at Hong Kong Disneyland as the main character for High School Musical.

It's not all hopeless. Just keep on trying your best. owo

I used to be harmony-deficient too. I used to only be able to do harmonies only if someone taught me. xDD;;

You'll learn how to do it with practice. Youtube videos like those posted up there help a lot too.
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Post by AKATOMO Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:59 am

A mod!!! (owo')!!! -shaking- jk jk lol so w8 is harmony a singing technique or a mixing thing or both? Cus i dont want to sing twice in different tunes(singing in diff tunes wud b extremely hard...orz and in same timing... orz)
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Post by Ciel Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:05 am

By right, you should sing your harmonies as a seperate recording track. Professionals do the same as well.

However, it is entirely possible to forge harmonies if you own software like Melodyne, or that Autotune harmony maker, or use Cubase's Vari-Audio...things like that to artificially change the pitch of each individual syllable (so it becomes like treating vocals like an instrument).

I'd only recommend that if you have a good sense of hearing and are patient though XD. Learn harmonies by trying to listen to the song over and over again, and then try to focus on the background sounds. Then when you record, put it against your main melody to hear if it "matches". Unless you're tonedeaf, you should be able to hear when a harmony sounds "off" and "clashes" with the melody :3
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Post by さおり Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:07 am

Ah, Ciel NINJA'D me xD

Well, in real life, recording artists rerecord themselves more than once in order to add harmonies to their songs (Akiko Shikata once had to make a song that had OVER 100 voice layers/ tracks. Just imagine how many times she had to sing for that one song xD), but if you're good at editing, you can just duplicate the track then change the pitches at different parts while adding more effects to it.

I... don't really recommend doing that if you don't have a "feel" for it or knowledge on notes though, because changing the pitch can change how fast the track is at times and just slapping together two different notes doesn't always produce the best sound >:
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Post by AKATOMO Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:56 am

So singing in harmony is singing off tune?/different key?(higher/lower) depending on the song? And umm i *think* im not tonedeaf? (hopes so) >.<
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Post by Cherysh Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:02 am

^ Not usually off-tune (<-- this carries a bad connotation imo :S) or in a different key, rather additional vocals sung either higher or lower than the main melody that adds depth and is meant to sound "in harmony" with the main vocals. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know too much music theory and I'm only reciting my understanding.)

The YT I linked says: "Harmonizing is when someone sings either above or below the original melody within the chord structure of a song, and of course, making it sound good."

And no, of course you are not tone deaf XD Very few people actually are!

edit: So the question of "how can I make harmonies sound good?" or "how do I harmonise w/ the main vocals?" may pop up (I don't think anyone explicitly answered that yet?). Check out these links: http://www.songwright.co.uk/2008/10/29/basics-how-to-harmonise-a-melody-using-primary-chords/ http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2010/01/07/how-to-harmonize-melodies/Major chords/triad ftw!

For harmonies in particular songs, you could always get another person to do them for you, or listen to the song really closely and pick out any harmonies you need, learn them and apply in your recording (:


Last edited by Cherysh on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:26 am; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Kumbancha Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:10 am

yeah pretty much what you said^^^^^, however you cannot just sing in a diferent key and call it a day, you gotta make sure it harmonizes with the main melody, and that means sounding good! because if you sing a very well sung melody and very good harmonies but they don't harmonize with the main melody then it would destroy the whole song and it would create a clash of pitches that isn't pretty for the ears

here's an example of bad harmonies


this girl has a good singing voice, but at the begining her harmonies are atrocious and it makes it sound bad


How do u tell when harmonies sound good? well you usually have to be pitch perfect to tell whether they're good or bad but usually singing 3 semitones either higher or lower works well for most songs, though make sure you fix the volume and don't let the harmonies overpower the melody
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Post by DREWdesu Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:21 am

I am completely tone-deaf when it comes to harmonies such as an old cover of mine

The choruses use Harmony Engine.... LOL


I think the harmonies are atrocious here XDD



Tip is to listen to the song many times or have a fellow fandubber help you with the harmonies :D
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Post by AKATOMO Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:24 am

Just realized that harmonies is hardcore stuffz XD, gonna try and use it somehow in the far? future LOL XD~ ty for all help >.< srry for being a bother~ XD
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Post by Cherysh Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:30 am

^ Harmonies really aren't "hardcore" so please don't be scared of using them in your covers! If you know how to harmonise in a way that accentuates your main vocals, it often makes the cover sound even better!

They're really just vocals sung slightly different and layered on top of the main. Just experiment around the next time you record!

I think I'm just repeating myself. All the best - and remember, google and youtube are your best friends!
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Post by krannda Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:32 am

Here's an example of what it would sound like.
*has fail harmonies* xDD;;

Melody
Harmonies *made up*
Both

This is an example of how it actually improves the melodies. It's like a companion. owo
Melody-san would be very lonely without harmonies.

There are times when solos are good too though. xDD;;
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Post by さおり Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:43 am

*kicks Drew and kran (with Lots of Love Kick™)*

lol gaiz. Your harmonies are fiiine, none of that, "I suck at them" xD

I'm with Cherysh. Just because harmonies don't come naturally to you (which is true with 90% of other people) doesn't mean it's not learn-able with enough practice. Just keep listening closely to songs that do have them and eventually you'll end up getting a feel of how they're done. I really wish you the best of luck with this endeavor though~! Keep at it, Akatomo :3
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Post by krannda Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:15 am

Totally agree with that. I used to completely be off with mine. You'll figure it out as you go along.

It isn't something that is acquired easily, so no worries. :3
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Post by AKATOMO Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:47 pm

Thanks guys (T^T) for my next cover, i will use harmonies!! (itll probably be bad but...) i will try!!! XD
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Post by Ciel Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:53 am

Since people are just giving BAD examples of harmonies, I figured I'd throw in some good ones...because...I'm actually good at harmonies >:. It's the only thing I'm good at XD.

Example of copying harmonies. They're the extra lines of vocals that come in every once in a while! Though...I think I may have added a couple that weren't there, orz. I always go overboard with harmonies ><

Original song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuAl04RGS6A

Example of completely made-up harmonies. The original had none :'D. This is also an example of me going completely ridiculously overboard - I had 9 vocal tracks, and 7 were harmonies orz. Er that is, this is after mixing the lines down as much as possible XD;;

Original song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKQkO5l-RqQ


Good luck! Harmonies are hard for a lot of people, so don't be afraid to try, scrap them, then try again until you think you've got it. For the average person it's good enough to just copy the harmonies of the original, so just try your hardest to listen to what's NOT the melody : D
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Post by AKATOMO Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:50 am

For the first one, -Mozaic Roll, did u put a light monotone harmony for all the verses? (except the 1st one) and the chorus, u had the 2 harmonies? 1 deep one on the left side and a high one on the right? or was i wrong/tonedeaf? XD and the second one mainly had the light monotone harmony?

PS: im obviously not good with harmonies and arent really familiar with them, but u sounded really good in both of them!!! XD
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Post by Ciel Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:26 am

AKATOMO wrote:For the first one, -Mozaic Roll, did u put a light monotone harmony for all the verses? (except the 1st one) and the chorus, u had the 2 harmonies? 1 deep one on the left side and a high one on the right? or was i wrong/tonedeaf? XD and the second one mainly had the light monotone harmony?

PS: im obviously not good with harmonies and arent really familiar with them, but u sounded really good in both of them!!! XD

I ended up removing Mozaik Role because it's a pretty bad one to learn about harmonies. I actually copied all the harmonies except the high one on the right side during the choruses :3. Also for the verse harmonies, the notes change quite a lot, it just sounds "monotone" because the chords used in the song were meant to make it sound a bit robotic.
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Post by AKATOMO Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:42 pm

The new one has scary lyrics~ (ToT) -shivering-, and in the chorus, you used harmonies to make the texture thicker and make it sound really cool~ XD, how did u do that?! O.o)!! Did u sing slightly higher or lower for the harmony? I really wanna know cus heaps of songs i like have that~ XD
Im gonna try as soon as i get better!! =P
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Post by Tempo-Rarely Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:58 pm

If you take the melody, raise it or drop it a fifth (7-semitones up or down) and play both simultaneously, you get a "chorus" effect of the song. You can try it as a fourth, or a third, or actually any combination as long as it sounds good to your ears and the ears of your friends or fans. Sometimes it sounds good, other times you might not like it

Now this is not a sure-shot method so I wouldn't recommend sticking to it all the time.

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